Would an all original 1975 Les Paul Deluxe have fret nibs?

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by dirk_benedict, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. dirk_benedict

    dirk_benedict Supporting Member

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    If yes, and there are no nibs, what is an appropriate ding to the resale price? Thanks!
     
  2. Tim Plains

    Tim Plains Member

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    It would if the neck has binding. I would not ding anything for a good refret. It's a Norlin, not a '59 burst.
     
  3. hackenfort

    hackenfort Supporting Member

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    Agree if the guitar had binding it should have nibs. A good re-fret on this guitar IMO would be a PLUS.
     
  4. Mpcoluv

    Mpcoluv Supporting Member

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    A refret would certainly make it play better. However a cork sniffing collector would ding you on the price some if you want to resell.
     
  5. zztomato

    zztomato Supporting Member

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    ^^^But a true cork sniffer would not be looking at a 75 deluxe LP.
     
  6. dirk_benedict

    dirk_benedict Supporting Member

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    It's weird, I've been looking at photos of quote "all original 1975" Deluxes this morning, and some seem to have nibs, but majority of them don't. I'm not sure if that means that some actually didn't or that guitars listed as originals aren't and have been refretted.

    What's a good price for one of these in wine red with original case and some buckle rash and dings, but otherwise in good shape?
     
  7. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    Here's the thing Dirk - I would consider a guitar with a refret still "all original." To me that term refers to wood, hardware, and electronics. Re-frets are part of a guitar's general maintenance. If you are going to really be a stickler about it, then even a string change would take a guitar out of being "all original."

    And as mentioned above, unless you want a fretless wonder, a refret probably did this guitar a world of good.
     
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  8. dirk_benedict

    dirk_benedict Supporting Member

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    Great points! I'm not really all that bothered by a refret, though from the pics they don't look all that new. But I'm mainly just trying to not overpay for the guitar if I can avoid it. I've had a mixed track record with guitars of this age, and I don't want to take an absolute bath on resale if, for some reason, it comes in and I don't bond with it. From a looks standpoint it's killer, and it's the sound I want, but you never know until it's in your hands, right?
     
  9. smcgov

    smcgov Member

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    I think that's about a $2500 guitar, I agree a good refret is a plus.
     
  10. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    If it's in super clean condition, $2500 is not out of the question, but I'd like to get closer to $2200.
     
  11. dirk_benedict

    dirk_benedict Supporting Member

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    Ok, great. that is helpful!
     
  12. tamader74

    tamader74 Supporting Member

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    ...and so would ANY (true) Collector/Vintage Dealer. Most think that that if a Vintage guitar is NOT a 'Golden era' guitar, a Collector/Vintage Dealer wouldn't want it,...Well that's a wrong perception,...they NEED these guitars to get to even more sought after guitars,...Oh, and to eat and have a roof over their heads,...

    ...I know most here would take this guitar and put it in their 'Garbage can',...(Yeah, right...the reality is they would be as proud as a peacock and hand their MIC Epi. down to someone they know...LOL). Bottom line, the hardest guitar to sell is a unplayable one, and back in the day/decade most Guitarist bought guitars to play, some just took better care than others.

    There are some 'Golden era' guitars in the hands of the higher end Collector that is not, OR will never ever again have the ability to be played due to getting them in that/playing condition would take away to much of the guitars overall originality,...thus value (few and far between, but they are out there and rare).

    As long as there was NOT any changes to the radius, refretted to a different gauge wire, and kept most of the patina...you have just improved the overall value,...example, in the '60s the ES-335 was available in Pelham Blue, and just by playing it sparingly, the finish came off the neck pretty quick...do you have any idea just how many 'wanna be'/'thought of themselves to be' Collector's had the neck refinished, OR passed on the guitar because of this fact/issue in the late '90s/early 21st Century???,...

    ...a ton, and I was the benefactor twice in that period of time,...every 'real' not 'flash in the pan' Collector had knowledge of this issue with ES-335's with this finish, there was also a couple of other Gibson models (Custom order)that had the 'Pelham Blue Blues' also,...the fact still is, Collectors (that aren't trying to steal) will pay Top $$$ for these guitars.

    If you like this guitar, and want it in your collection...be more concerned about it's structure and electronics, 'Nib removal' was most likely needed for a proper refret. Tom

    P.S. I was not intending to offend anyone in my post, if I have I'm Sorry,...But a 'Player' and 'Collector' are two totally different things, and IMHO you need both. Back when I got into this the only C word used to describe me was Crazy,..."NO one would want this many guitars" I was told constantly,..."Your blowing all your $$$ on more...", then the late '80s came along I was then tagged a Collector, and only then the Crazy tag was removed...LOL.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
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  13. stephenwz968

    stephenwz968 Supporting Member

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    The nibs on those are quite small, as the frets are fairly flat to begin with, so sometimes they are hard to see in pics. I would concur that for me, as a player, I'd consider a good refret as maintenance, and a sign of a good guitar that's actually been played. I wouldn't expect to pay more for a good refretted guitar, but I don't think I'd expect to pay less either.
     
  14. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    I think it the guitar is MINT condition, and you refret, you probably took some value off. If it's clearly used (which I suspect it is), a refret won't hurt the price.

    I really only think a refret should hurt a "show" guitar.
     
  15. sleep

    sleep Supporting Member

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    A re-fretted guitar is definitely not all original. If, for instance, a seller failed to disclose that in a FS ad, I would think that very dishonest.

    Whether the frets on those guitars are to one's liking or not, they are one of the defining characteristics of that period, same as the volute or the logo style; I think it's a shame that people rip the frets out to make the guitar more like the modern LPs when there are so many LPs made after that roughly 15 year period that don't have that style of frets... why not just buy one of those?

    And yes, it should have nibs if it hasn't been refretted.
     
  16. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    You are in the minority about the original part but I think we all would agree it should be disclosed. One has nothing to do with the other though.
     
  17. sleep

    sleep Supporting Member

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    I might be in the minority in this thread, but overall, I think to most people a refret is a pretty big deal when discussing originality. Respectfully, it is by definition not all original if the frets are not the original frets
    Either a guitar is all original or it isn't, just like it's in "mint condition" or it isn't. I think strings are really the only expected exception when it comes to being able to claim originality, as they will simply become brittle/rust over time and so can't be expected to last the life of the guitar, even if well kept, and, perhaps more importantly, aren't a part of the guitar itself. Even things that require no modification to the guitar (say, swapping tuners with a type with same screw pattern) or a different bridge on the same posts is a "mod".. something as invasive as refret is much worse (with regard to originality)... whether it improves the guitar is subjective.
     
  18. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    Then per your logic even a string change makes it not all original, and that is just silly. That's why it's not subscribed to here.
     
  19. sleep

    sleep Supporting Member

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    I just explained why a string change doesn't factor in for most people (1. longevity and 2. not actually a part of the guitar). By your logic, pots, which also wear out, don't affect originality if replaced.... but you said earlier that they do.

    Start a poll, see what the consensus is.
     
  20. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    The poll is this thread. You are behind.

    Strings aren't part of the guitar are they? I'd like to hear you play one without them!
     

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