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Wow! Old Celestion GB RI's Sound Really Congested in the Mids!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by grantford, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. grantford

    grantford Member

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    Just making a comment on my recent findings. The 25W RI's I have had for 2+ years sounded great, but the G12H30 RI's and G12M25 Blackbacks I now have sound so much more detailed and defined. Especially in the mids.

    You never notice it if you just use the 25W Greenback RI's. I was using these exclusively for 2+ years. Once I got a few other speaker types to A/B with them I was surprised.

    Anybody else think these are stuffy and boxy sounding? I'm just making conversation here, lol:JAM
     
  2. Dr. Tweedbucket

    Dr. Tweedbucket Deluxe model available !!!11

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    Boxy and honky sounding to a degree. They were one of the better speakers in my massive A-B Celestion speaker blowout test 07.
     
  3. Free

    Free Member

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    Where's the test link, Doctor? I'd like to check that out.
     
  4. Dr. Tweedbucket

    Dr. Tweedbucket Deluxe model available !!!11

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    I didn't publish anything on it. This was a Saturday screwing around with the amps in the living room thing. :)

    I had 2 identical speaker cabs and loaded different speakers in them weeding them out worst to best. Test was using a Mesa MkIII clean channel and a JCM800 for the crunchy channel and an AB switch between cabs.

    The speakers were: ( and I realize the recones are not a valid part of the test, but tested them anyway )

    Original cone G12-65
    Reconed G12-65
    Reconed 1973 G12M 25W
    Heritage G12M 20W
    English G12M 25W
    Chinese G12M 25W
    English Vintage 30s
    Chinese G12H30s
    Heritage G12H30s
    Mesa Black Shadows MC90
    English Celestion G12H80
    EVM12L



    I thought I would end up liking the 20W greenback Heritage and the G12H30 Heritage speakers, but I was WRONG. I also thought I would like the G12-65, but they sounded like crap.... very disappointing.

    The speakers that I thought had the best control and clarity were both the Chinese and English 25W Greenbacks and also ( to my surprise ) the Vintage 30s. ( I soo wanted to like the G12H30s, but they just didn't stand out ).

    Honorable mentions are the MC90s and the EVM12L !
     
  5. Jahn

    Jahn Listens to Johnny Marr, plays like John Denver Supporting Member

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    By the way, I just put a Celestion Blue in replacement of a generic no-name speaker (Rola? Jensen? who knows) and it was a great improvement, cleaned up those muddy mids like you wouldn't believe - without sounding scooped. Damn thing is almost chimey, and that's from a "brown" amp. Kudos, and you should try these Tweedbucket!
     
  6. grantford

    grantford Member

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    That's interesting. Were all your speaker specimens really, really broken in? I did not like the RI G12H30's until they were pummeled for hours. The blackbacks I have are almost perfect.

    I wish I could magically find some NOS vintage breenbacks to see what they were like when new!
     
  7. Free

    Free Member

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    Great test - very interesting. I really like my RI Greenbacks (G12M25) too and have always come back to them upon auditioning other speakers. Nice to hear how they stood up to that imposing lineup ;)...
     
  8. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    My tests,using many of the same speakers and some others, took over three years and my results came out a lot different than yours. It just goes to show that we all have different ears and tastes.
     
  9. JubileeMan 2555

    JubileeMan 2555 Member

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    My only experience was in a store when I was buying a Vintage Marshall 4x12.

    I wanted the vintage cab, but it was about $1300 with original greenbacks... I looked around and found a newer, but used marshall cab with the reissue speakers.

    I sat down with a late 70's JMP and did an A/B between the two for about a half hour.

    i didn't need that long though. The reissues were FAR from the tone of the original. The Vintage cab had a transparency to all the frequencies while the reissues sounded congested.

    We talk about speaker break-in alot around here, but from my personal experiences, break-in can only make a good speaker even better. But I've never had it make a poor sounding speaker suddenly magical.
     
  10. grantford

    grantford Member

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    These were EXACTLY my findings. Thing is I didn't realize this was true until I got around to really a/b-ing different "greenback" style speakers. Everything I have here is really, really broken in. The greenback 25W RI's are congected and muffled in the mids.

    I know, I know, I was shocked too. I was a die hard fan of these speakers until recently:JAM
     
  11. Dr. Tweedbucket

    Dr. Tweedbucket Deluxe model available !!!11

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    That could be part of it. The Heritage and the Chinese G12H30s probably only had less than 40 hours on them .... I am certain they are still stiff. From what I heard, the G12H is one of the best speakers going, but they just didn't stand out as being superior in my little test.


    Well, I agree, time will sort it all out ..... plus giving the speakers plenty of time to break in is a good thing. :BEER
     
  12. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    Right On!

    I found that checking out a bunch of different speakers with different cabs and amp was time well spent. I have a much better understanding now of what to expect from different styles and models of speakers. I have heard amps that went from so, so to outstanding by simply swapping the speakers. I have had amps get twice as loud by swapping speakers. I have a much better idea of what compression means, what speakers breaking up or staying clean can do to or for your sound. I know that cabs can make as much or more difference than the speakers that are in them. I know better how to make the most of whatever I have to work with and at least have a clue as to what way to go to get the sound I want, etc, etc, etc. The best thing is that I feel that I can trust my ears.
     
  13. hollowbodyhead

    hollowbodyhead Member

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    I have a couple of English greenbacks and a Chinese greenback. I have to say, the Chinese sounds better. Go figure.
     

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