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Yeah, clean ... but Fendery clean?

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
Just messing around with cleans. Do these THD Bivalve cleans sound Fendery? That was my intention. The top one is with the high-voltage-to-tube feature, the bottom one; low-voltage-to-tube feature and added Gold speaker. iPhone placement is different, so not meant to be a comparison, just two attempts. I always put the gear info into the SoundCloud notes.



 

leighianson

Member
Messages
1,891
Yep sounds pretty fendery to me. I was just playing my old Super Reverb and that’s definitely a similar tone. If I had to nitpick I’d say there’s something different about the low end in your clips than Blackface fenders. I know it’s just an iPhone recording but the low end seems lacking. Great playing by the way, I like that augmented arpeggio on the dominant chord you used near the end.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
Yep sounds pretty fendery to me. I was just playing my old Super Reverb and that’s definitely a similar tone. If I had to nitpick I’d say there’s something different about the low end in your clips than Blackface fenders. I know it’s just an iPhone recording but the low end seems lacking. Great playing by the way, I like that augmented arpeggio on the dominant chord you used near the end.
Thanks, I'll listen for that. I still need to directly compare to my Redplate Blackloop, which is Fendery by designed.

One mans augmented arpeggio on the Dominant chord is another man's ... ran my fingers between the dots. ;)
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
This is where one starts saying, am I having a thread with myself?

Either way, I wanted to include a clip of my Redplate Blackloop, to use as a reference. Sure, it's not a Fender, so not an authentic reference, but it sounds Fendery enough for me.

 
Messages
1,950
Just messing around with cleans. Do these THD Bivalve cleans sound Fendery? That was my intention. The top one is with the high-voltage-to-tube feature, the bottom one; low-voltage-to-tube feature and added Gold speaker. iPhone placement is different, so not meant to be a comparison, just two attempts. I always put the gear info into the SoundCloud notes.



Gold speaker I don't rekon is ever gonna be a great fendery speaker, others may disagree. If your drawing a comparison between that and some of the classic fender times i.e super reverb, deluxe reverb or bassman it's a fair bit off in my view. Im sure you can always get a psudo fendery sound If you really e.q the amp and guitar.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
Gold speaker I don't rekon is ever gonna be a great fendery speaker, others may disagree. If your drawing a comparison between that and some of the classic fender times i.e super reverb, deluxe reverb or bassman it's a fair bit off in my view. Im sure you can always get a psudo fendery sound If you really e.q the amp and guitar.
The clips that used a Gold were used in a Gold + Jensen BB100 mix, so not all Brit. I do like the bounce of the Gold, but yeah, the top end is Brit.

I used to have a '64 Vibroberb, so am a little familiar with vintage Fender tones. I'm not shooting for a vintage vibe, just a generally accepted Fendery tone. But with this, it would be nice to have specifics as to why they are not hitting the mark. Not Fendery because they lack or have ... ?
 

ToobNoob

Member
Messages
470
This is where one starts saying, am I having a thread with myself?
After reading the thread, this is where one might agree with your assessment. but, is there anything wrong with that? :dunno

Sound fine to me. (I like the 2nd clip from 1st post) But, then again, that doesn't carry much water.

:beer
T$
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
After reading the thread, this is where one might agree with your assessment. but, is there anything wrong with that? :dunno

Sound fine to me. (I like the 2nd clip from 1st post) But, then again, that doesn't carry much water.

:beer
T$
Maybe they need a separate forum for people like me, until we can better assimilate with the general population. ;)

Thank you, you carry enough water for me. :aok
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
The final part of the experiment, going back and forth between amps and trying to get the Bivalve to sound as close as possible to the Redplate. I gave the Bivalve a quick bass bump while adjusting volumes, which might have thrown it off a little, but close enough.

I used the Bandlab iPhone app for this clip, as I can easily switch amps and edit out the blank space. 1st half Blackloop, 2nd half Bivalve...

https://www.bandlab.com/gulliverseyes/redplate-blackloop-then-thd-bivalve
 

BlueRiff

Member
Messages
6,898
Just messing around with cleans. Do these THD Bivalve cleans sound Fendery? That was my intention. The top one is with the high-voltage-to-tube feature, the bottom one; low-voltage-to-tube feature and added Gold speaker. iPhone placement is different, so not meant to be a comparison, just two attempts. I always put the gear info into the SoundCloud notes.



Sounds great! I preferred example 2 with the fullness along with the sparkle. It sounds like Fender to me.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
Just when I was finishing up this experiment, I thought, what about Two Rock cleans? They are well revered; can the Bivalve approach them?

First, a cheesy iPhone clip of Two Rock cleans, for comparison. This is the Sensor 50. After playing Fender cleans, the Two Rock cleans seem much bigger sounding, thicker in voicing and a more prominent "SNAP." There is some flexibility in the Two Rock, to get it closer to Fendery tone, but the cleans are so great, why bother? Going back to the Redplate Blackloop clip (above), you can hear quite a difference between it and the Two Rock. I should mention that the Blackloop does have a "FAT" setting that will get it closer to Two Rock cleans, but I didn't use that feature when shooting for Fendery tones. I will also add, that I would normally use more reverb with these tones, but wanted to hear more amp than effect.

Two Rock Sensor cleans.


Now for the Bivalve, trying to make it sound more like the Two Rock. I didn't go back and forth all that much for this experiment, but thought I got close enough to resolve my curiosity. I swapped some tubes and I have a KT66 and (I think) 6550 in it for this recording. This combination of tubes seemed to have a little more snap than some of the others.


Bivalve, trying to get Two Rock cleans. It might help to add some volume, when comparing to the above clip.
 
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HeavyCream

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,063
Out of all of them, I thought the 2nd one in the OP sounded really Fendery. The others did too but a little different. Maybe I just like that one best. You can hear the low end and it makes for a better scooped Fender impression imho.

This is kind of cheating because a JTM45 is basically a Tweed Bassman with British parts. Still, I’m not sure a lot folks realize just how Fendery it can sound. I have a bunch that are pretty Tweedish, but not that clean. This one is pretty clean and leans towards a Blackface type of tone.
 

eigentone

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,377
Just when I was finishing up this experiment, I thought, what about Two Rock cleans? They are well revered; can the Bivalve approach them?

First, a cheesy iPhone clip of Two Rock cleans, for comparison. This is the Sensor 50. After playing Fender cleans, the Two Rock cleans seem much bigger sounding, thicker in voicing and a more prominent "SNAP." There is some flexibility in the Two Rock, to get it closer to Fendery tone, but the cleans are so great, why bother? Going back to the Redplate Blackloop clip (above), you can hear quite a difference between it and the Two Rock. I should mention that the Blackloop does have a "FAT" setting that will get it closer to Two Rock cleans, but I didn't use that feature when shooting for Fendery tones. I will also add, that I would normally use more reverb with these tones, but wanted to hear more amp than effect.

Two Rock Sensor cleans.


Now for the Bivalve, trying to make it sound more like the Two Rock. I didn't go back and forth all that much for this experiment, but thought I got close enough to resolve my curiosity. I swapped some tubes and I have a KT66 and (I think) 6550 in it for this recording. This combination of tubes seemed to have a little more snap than some of the others.


Bivalve, trying to get Two Rock cleans. It might help to add some volume, when comparing to the above clip.
The Two Rock sounds best to my ears. The lows sound fuller and the dynamics/transients are represented better. The THD sounded nice; just not bold and punchy like the Two Rock.

The Redplate sounded rather bright and wiry in that clip.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
Out of all of them, I thought the 2nd one in the OP sounded really Fendery. The others did too but a little different. Maybe I just like that one best. You can hear the low end and it makes for a better scooped Fender impression imho.

This is kind of cheating because a JTM45 is basically a Tweed Bassman with British parts. Still, I’m not sure a lot folks realize just how Fendery it can sound. I have a bunch that are pretty Tweedish, but not that clean. This one is pretty clean and leans towards a Blackface type of tone.
Are there any additional tricks to that huge pick attack? I'm guessing the usual single coil pickups and relatively high guitar action, but anything else? Is there an OD pedal being used? There's kind of a Tubescreamer vibe going on, but I really can't tell.
 

Jay Strange

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,054
The final part of the experiment, going back and forth between amps and trying to get the Bivalve to sound as close as possible to the Redplate. I gave the Bivalve a quick bass bump while adjusting volumes, which might have thrown it off a little, but close enough.

I used the Bandlab iPhone app for this clip, as I can easily switch amps and edit out the blank space. 1st half Blackloop, 2nd half Bivalve...

https://www.bandlab.com/gulliverseyes/redplate-blackloop-then-thd-bivalve
Hey man, that was cool.
I dig the feeling I got after the song faded away
in my ears.
Killer vibe!
 

HeavyCream

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,063
Are there any additional tricks to that huge pick attack? I'm guessing the usual single coil pickups and relatively high guitar action, but anything else? Is there an OD pedal being used? There's kind of a Tubescreamer vibe going on, but I really can't tell.
That’s actually an HH Les Paul (no coil tap). Low wind unpotted A2 early PAF style pups. Specifically, Seth Lovers. Using the middle position gives it that single coil vibe. I definitely don’t do super low action. Not slide height either. Heavy pick. No pedals. The amp is cooking some but not cranked. The JTM45 has a lot of overtones and fat transients. The Scumback Alnicos do a great job articulating the subtleties in the attack. The right amount of lows/lower mids might help too. IDK… that’s all I got.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
That’s actually an HH Les Paul (no coil tap). Low wind unpotted A2 early PAF style pups. Specifically, Seth Lovers. Using the middle position gives it that single coil vibe. I definitely don’t do super low action. Not slide height either. Heavy pick. No pedals. The amp is cooking some but not cranked. The JTM45 has a lot of overtones and fat transients. The Scumback Alnicos do a great job articulating the subtleties in the attack. The right amount of lows/lower mids might help too. IDK… that’s all I got.
Well, I got it wrong on every single guess. I do have a PRS with fairly low output PAFs but the middle position is a part of the 5-way coil splitting. This makes me want to wire it LP style to see what's in there. I do have a Scumnico but don't usually use it for that type of tone as it's somewhat compressed and I assume it won't pop as much. I'll need to rediscover it for that. Thanks.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,231
That’s actually an HH Les Paul (no coil tap). Low wind unpotted A2 early PAF style pups. Specifically, Seth Lovers. Using the middle position gives it that single coil vibe. I definitely don’t do super low action. Not slide height either. Heavy pick. No pedals. The amp is cooking some but not cranked. The JTM45 has a lot of overtones and fat transients. The Scumback Alnicos do a great job articulating the subtleties in the attack. The right amount of lows/lower mids might help too. IDK… that’s all I got.
I soldered my PRS PAF pickups, one over the other, to simulate a Les Paul middle position. I really like it and might install a Les Paul 3-way switch permanently. The highs are a little bright so I rolled the tone down ... I think, too much so. This clip is a little too PHAT, but but I see potential.

 




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