You wont get "amp in the room" no modeler can do that..

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Pastafarian, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. burningyen

    burningyen Member

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    Yeah, as Jay posted earlier those effects are very minor compared to the primary shortcomings of close-miked IRs. What I was getting at was that far-field IRs capture the blending of multi-driver cabs at normal playing distance.
     
  2. -Empire

    -Empire Supporting Member

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    That's what it's supposed to sound like. That's what it's modeling. If you want it to sound like a guitar cab, turn off the cab and mic modeling and run it through a power amp and guitar cab.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
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  3. traynor_garnet

    traynor_garnet Member

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    We were talking irs not modelling in general. Others claimed irs can soundlike an amp in a room.
     
  4. hippietim

    hippietim Member

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    A week or so ago my reformed Stones band had our first rehearsal/singer audition. I ran my Tele with my AX8/CLR set to a Tweed Twin patch with an alnico blue 2x12 and the other guitar player used his Strat into his Kemper/CLR using a Britt Colonial profile.

    They sure sounded like amps in the room to me. Well, except the levels were more sane and filled the room more evenly and we didn't kill the drummer with open back cabs. To me the little nuances of amp in the room are completely irrelevant once you actually just start playing and stop worrying about it. And once the band kicks in, there's little difference at all.

    We both dialed in new patches independently the day before and neither of us had to touch our patches at all. We're both very familiar with our gear, we've been playing for many years so we know what we like to get out of a rig, and the two of us have shared the stage many times in several bands as well as sitting in type situations.

    Things that make your modeler not sound right in the room usually don't translate to sounding good at all and most of those problems are the same with a real rig.
     
  5. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    To be clear, I was talking about "modeling in general." All of my modelers use IRs for cab sims.

    Nobody has said that. A modeler that uses IRs for cab sims, is appropriately set up (the driver makes as much a difference as the car), and is played through a neutral monitor can sound like a tube amp played through a guitar cab. If that were impossible, I would never have adopted modeling. I readily accept that you may not have experienced this, but that is not proof of its impossibility.
     
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  6. djd100

    djd100 Member

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    Well, "it will sound just as real/good" TO YOU perhaps, though "everyone" doesn't agree with that blanket statement seeing many can hear the differences between DSP and real tubes.

    As to which is better, that's totally subjective as both can sound great (even though there are differences, it's possible!).

    Case reopened...:D

    P.S. Modeler "value" is not the subject of this thread, AITR sound is, and that's totally dependent on two things...

    a) There's a speaker cab "in the room".

    b) You are "in the room" with it.

    That's it, simple really. Various cabs/speakers sound different, use what you like.


     
  7. djd100

    djd100 Member

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    You can use a Reactive Load with or Power Scale a vintage Plexi as well.

    There is also a new'ish expensive electro-magnet speaker that can cut SPL up to 20db +- without killing tone supposedly, i.e. many different ways now vs the 60's when the only way was to use a properly powered/sized tube amp.

     
  8. ivanh3

    ivanh3 Member

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    "You wont get "amp in the room" no modeler can do that.."

    Yeah, but I can get a pretty convincing "amp in the next room", and I can get a SPOT ON "amp on my car radio".
     
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  9. PaisleyWookie

    PaisleyWookie Member

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    Dude, never post on TGP after 5 beers. It's simply not safe. LOL
     
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  10. PaisleyWookie

    PaisleyWookie Member

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    There is no "frequently sought amp". It varies wildly depending on genre and individual.
     
  11. strumminsix

    strumminsix Supporting Member

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    Exactly! Essential for IEMs. Then musicianship and listening to the gestalt of the product vs your own guitar screaming behind you.
     
  12. fairness

    fairness Member

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    I won't play with IEMs if i can avoid it. Hate them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  13. traynor_garnet

    traynor_garnet Member

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    Umm, you are not the only poster in the thread and yes, other people have in fact made such statements in the thread. You seem to be creating your own counter position.
     
  14. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    Please be so kind as to provide links in support of that statement. I haven't seen a single example of someone saying that "irs can soundlike an amp in a room." Perhaps I was overlooking something.
     
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  15. fairness

    fairness Member

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    Uhm everyone claiming they get "amp in the room" from their modeler + FRFR is basically saying that?
     
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  16. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    For those complaining about IRs not sounding like an amp in a room, here's a question: What did you monitor through?
    IMO this, without any doubt, is *the* key thing to deal with before it makes sense to continue with this discussion.
     
  17. joeshmoe69

    joeshmoe69 Member

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    Yes, the Katana's are a combo of modeling and amp in the room.

    I have the 50w and it is very good tube amp in the room sound.

    I like it so much Im getting the 100 for more features.

    Jimmy
     
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  18. ibis

    ibis Member

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    I currently use a Digitech RP1000 into the front end of a clean (low gain pre tubes) Bassman Ltd RI and get some good tones with the amp models so long as the cab simulations are turned off.
    Is anyone doing similar with a Helix? I am getting the urge to upgrade and wonder if a Helix into a Bassman on stage isn't just going to be a waste of money!
     
  19. JoeB63

    JoeB63 Supporting Member

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    I'm not saying there's no difference, at home, in your room (which is what we're really talking about here), between modeler/IRs and amp/cab, but...

    You need to consider the acoustic space and how you're using it. When using an amp/cab, most of us tend to sit/stand in the sweet spot of the space (e.g no one sits on the floor with their ear right in front of the speaker, rather, you move to the side, likely several feet away). You're taking advantage of the nature of speakers and cabs, and room acoustics. Once you get that amp up loud, your experiencing all the reflections and filtering associated with that...

    I've found that if you turn up a modeler/IR/FRFR loud enough, the effects of the room acoustics obscure/overwhelm almost all of the differences between that type of set-up and a regular amp/cab ----- in a room, playing by yourself. Of course, playing in a band and/or in a real venue create a whole other set of pros and cons of each type of set-up (most of which, IMO, point toward going direct and using FRFR as a better choice).

    Joe
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  20. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    It appears to me that there is a lack of precision in your thinking. Claiming that a combination of elements can be made to sound like a tube amplifier and cab is not equivalent to an assertion that an impulse response is by itself sufficient to accomplish that goal.
     

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